While I ABSOLUTELY encourage you to watch all 4 video clips (none is longer than 7-8 minutes), you only need to watch a total of 2. There are 2 pairs of videos, and you need only choose one video from each pair.
First of all, the 2 clips below both show a 'round table,' panel discussion of what the House vote on health care means and what might be coming next. Again, it would be great if you watched both, but you only have to pick 1 of these 2 to watch.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/08/fox_news_sunday_panel_on_health_care_vote_in_the_house.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/ns/meet_the_press#33769875
Now, the next 2 clips are also from the Sunday talk shows, but instead of analysts, journalists, and pundits, they involved some of the actual 'players' on both sides of the health care game. The first is a discussion with Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen (the head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee) and Indiana Congressman Mike Pence (the 3rd ranking Republican in the House). The second clip is a conversation with Tim Kaine and Michael Steele, the Chairmen of the National Democratic and Republican Parties, respectively. Again, it would be great if you watched both, but you only have to pick 1 of these 2 to watch.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/08/reps_van_hollen_pence_on_health_care_unemployment.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/08/steele_kaine_on_gov_elections_health_care.html
Obviously, there were lots of different opinions expressed in these videos, and some of them were certainly using carefully selected facts/statistics or at least being 'spun' so that they were poltically self-serving. Here are the questions on which I'll be interested to hear your thoughts:
- On the 'round table' discussion videos, which points (either for or against the chances of health care reform being passed) seemed most important? Which seemed the most logical and to have the best arguments to back them up?
- On the 'Republican v. Democrat' discussion videos, who seemed to win the argument in your mind? Was it the Democrat (Van Hollen, Kaine) or the Republican (Pence, Steele)? Why? Which arguments stood out to you as making the most sense?
- I realize you may not have all the relevant background information yet, but what do you think the chances are that a major comprehensive health care reform bill will be passed in the next few months? Are you in support of this bill passing? Why/why not?
- Any other thoughts/opinions/ideas that came to while watching these video clips and that you're dying to share?
Remember, these posts are due by Friday, November 20, the last day before Thanksgiving break. Really try to make 2 separate entries: one that is an initial reaction to the videos and the questions I've posed, and then a different posting which is more of a comment/reaction to something one of your classmates has said. Thanks--I look forward to your comments!
I believe that one of the best points made in the "round table" discussion videos is the fact that the health care reform is not the main priority on people's minds right now. The economy is and will remain the biggest problem for now and going on to next year. I don't believe it will pass before next year because it is not of great importance. But I also believe it won't pass this year because the senate has many different ideas for the bill. It will have to be revised with compromises by the senate and house, meaning it will take a lot longer to get passed. Also, I don't think the bill will get passed at all, until economic changes or attempts are made for improvements.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the video with democrat Van Hollen and republican Pence, I believe that although Pence had the last word, Van Hollen won that argument. Pence kept going back to the same idea of the American people being against the bill. He also kept mentioning that the democrats have turned their back on the people and are not giving them what they want. Which I felt was mostly to insult Van Hollen and the democratic party. Van Hollen I felt, explained more about what was going on with the bill and how the vote went in the house.
ReplyDeleteIn the Meet the Press video on the Health Care Reform Bill the point that one of the members made was that this bill will add to our countries problems and bring our economy further into debt. To this he adds that we do need to do something to instill a new law but this one that is currently being passed will harm us in the end. The point that Rachel Maddow made about many liberal Democrats not voting for the bill to pass in the Senate due to the limits on funding on abortion seems to be a valid statement due to the fact that many liberals feel very strongly about that issue. The comment on when the bill is passed it will automatically become favored by the people with the evidence of Regan’s Medicare Reform seem as though it would be true but if this bill does bring our debt down even further thus causing the unemployment rate to increase having health insurance won’t really matter in the end. This a point that was brought up in the Fox round table by Brit who said that the most important issue is the economy not Health Care which in some cases is true but I do personally believe that Obama will return to the issue of rebuilding our economy once this bill gets passed. The problem then becomes weather the bill will be passed in the Senate which seems hard to believe since the House barely passed this bill and 39 Democrats voted against it.
ReplyDeleteDuring the debate between Hollen and Pence I feel that Hollen made better arguments. He used the examples of the insurance companies making a 400% profit and their ability to deny a person’s coverage due to previous health issues as a reason for this bill to be passed. Pence said that the lack of voted by the Democrats on the House vote was due to them “not getting the message” because the American people are frustrated with the liberal government takeover. Then Hollen makes a good point after buy saying that if you observe the reaction of the American people during the 2008 election of wanted the government to work on the big issued items instead of sweeping them under the rug which according to him President Bush did during his term. One thing that Hollen said that I liked was that the bill does need to be changed somewhat which I do agree on and that we shouldn’t just throw the whole thing out. Pence then said that his Republican party did double the national debt the first six years but the Democrats have instilled a stimulus plan with then gave tons of government money to the nation. Hollen then states that the Congressional Budget Office said that the Health Care Bill reduces the deficit over a 10 year period by more than 100 million dollars thus lessoning the effect in which this plan has on our current economy.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the fact that thirty-nine Democrats voted against the major overall of health care reform, makes it apparent that even individuals within the majority party are still not satisfied, and are in fact skeptical, of the proposed reform in the House. This statistic is important to note because many individuals would have expected that almost all the Democrats in the House would have voted for the passage of the proposed health care reform. I thought what Mara Liasson said about how the reform is becoming more and more centrist, specifically in regards to the public option and abortion, and how that is the main reason as to why some of the Democrats decided to vote down the proposed reform, is a logical claim. Also, I thought that Brit Hume made a good point when he mentioned that the 18 House Democrats from districts carried by John McCain that voted on the bill, may very well be vulnerable in the upcoming election depending on if the economy improves or not. In regards to the Van Hollen v. Pence discussion video, I was pretty split down the middle with which member most effectively made their argument. It was clear that Van Hollen presented more statistical facts, which is always important, and Pence appeared to be a little more harsh (i.e. mentioning that the Democratic party may not exist in the near future) and redundant in his claims, I still thought it was very wise of Pence to quote one of the Democratic members of Congress that said “‘the last thing you do in a recession is raise taxes’ [and Pence added] that is just what this health care does”. On the other hand I thought that Van Hollen did bring up a good point that before 2008, Congress had put “big issues under the rug” and now Congress is trying to step it up and actually deal with an issue that is not easy at all to agree on since it is so complicated. The fact that the House was at least able to pass an overall on the health care reform is commendable, especially since it is most likely going to be more difficult for the Senate to pass a reform as Bill Kristol pointed out.
ReplyDeleteThe FOX News Sunday Panel on Health Care brought up a lot of really good points about the Health Care debate at hand. The first point, or argument, of the roundtable debate that stuck out at me the most was the comparison of President Obama to President Reagan as opposed to President Clinton. As Kirsten Powers said, I believe that Obama is like Reagan in the aspect that he has a very clear vision of what he wants for America's future. His only flaw, which sets him a part from President Reagan, and leads many to believe that he is more like President Clinton, is the fact that he still lacks the trust from the American people.
ReplyDeleteAnother good point that was brought up in the discussion was the fact that america as a whole if focusing way too much on the Health Care Bill and not enough on the economic crisis at hand. I definitely agree with this argument and the comment made that if we continue to focus more on the health care issue than the economy, it will further burden business and economy.
My initial reaction to the Health Reform Bill is that it would not be a "step in the right direction" for American health care. Although, I do not have anywhere near enough of the information I would need to make an informed decision about the bill. Having said that, I do think that this bill will pass. If it does, I hope it is successful and that it will improve health care in America for future generations
ReplyDeleteFor the Round Table debates the most influential thing that was said was when the women said that people are either going to side with the Democrats or do nothing. People have been struggling with the issue of health care long enough, and if people in congress are deciding now to do nothing than get something we have the wrong type of people leading us. Another thing from the Round Table Debates was when they were talking baout the new defecit of income and spending that would come from the health care. If we are actually going to be off by some 7% in what we are spending then some changes definitely need to be made to the bill. All in all though I believe our government is starting to progress in the right direction and dealing with the health care reform more severly now that it has been approved in the House.
ReplyDeleteMy initial reaction after watching the “FOX News Sunday” video is that I completely agree with Brit Hume and Kristen Powers. They both point out how much time, energy, and money has gone into the health care bill, while this should not be our number one concern. Our biggest concern should be our economy, and the fact that the stimulus bill is not as effective as it should be. I also agree with Bill Kristol’s point that the reason Regan had so much support was because he had bipartisan support and people had confidence in the direction he was going. I don’t know if and when the health care bill will pass, but whatever the decision is- hopefully it is good for our country.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think neither Steele nor Kaine was a clear winner of the debate on the “Real Clear Politics” video. They were both a little obnoxious for interrupting each other every other second. I think in the debate between Van Hollen and Pence, Van Hollen is the clear winner. He was able to strike back with many convincing arguments, while Pence just took cheap shots at the Democratic party as a whole saying things like, “The Deomcrats put their liberal big government agenda ahead of the people.” and “If the democrats keep ignoring the American people their party is going to be history.”
In the first video of the round table disscusions I thought it was really interesting that Kirsten Powers brought up the topic of whether Obama is going to be a 'Reagan' or a 'Clinton.' I think that Obama is without a doubt trying to be a 'Reagan,' although it can not be decided if he is sucessful at this until we find out, first, if the bill passes, and second, if it brings a positive and lasting change to the country. With a bill that would alter the management of the country so drastically, it is obvious that Obama wants to stay true to his promise of 'change.'
ReplyDeleteIn the Meet The Press "round table" i find the stewpack amendment a big topic for the Senate. I believe that this is going to make it hard for the bill to get passed in the Senate. I think that they are going to have to get rid of this amendment in order for it to pass. Even if they do get rid of it, it is still going to be hard to pass this bill through the Senate. This is because there isn't as big as a majority in it as there is in the House. I believe that the bill is going to have to be changed a lot so that the Republicans feel comfortable with it and pass it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Alexander and Grace on the debate between Van Hollen and Pence. I agree that Von Hollen won the debate. This is because Pence kept bringing up the same thing. He kept saying that the American people are against the bill and how the Democrats are turning their backs on them. Van Hollen was able to come back to what Pence had to say every time. He also brought up really good points. One being a response to Pence about how the two newly elected officials voted for the bill. So therefore they are listening to the people.
ReplyDeleteIn the 'round table' discussion, the economy is the most important issue on why the Health Care Reform bill might not pass. WIth everything depending on the economy, especially now, I believe passing this bill may cause even further economic problems. The fact that there is a 10.2% unemployment rate right now, shows the reason why the government needs to be focusing as much energy on the econmony and fixing it as possible. I also agree with the comment that was made about how the passing of the bill will be a burden to bussinesses and the economy and see this as another reason to focus on the problem at hand. With 39 Democrats voting against the Reform bill, I believe it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pass the bill witin the next couple of months.
ReplyDeleteAbout the FOX round table discussion - I totally agree with Briana about the Obama/Reagan comparison. He has characteristics of both Reagan and Clinton - his goals and vision are clear, but his lack of trust is holding him back from "getting things done." Also, I think the point that stood out most to me in the round table discussion was the fact that, just because the health care bill passed in the House, it still has a long way to go (through the Senate and the extensive other steps that we went over in class this week). Many believe its passing in the House is a victory, but we must not count our chickens before they hatch! The journey is still long and winding for this bill!
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Van Hollen/Pence video, I agree with the comments made by many of those before me - that both representatives had a completely different approach to this discussion. Both seemed very stereotypical of their party - Van Hollen was very idealistic and tried to be as positive as possible while Pence seemed sort of defensive and firm in his arguments. Pence seemed to be stuck on the same few points, while Van Hollen responded with something different to each of the questions posed at him. Thus, I think that Van Hollen had much more appropriate composure and responses as compared to Pence.
ReplyDeleteThe one big point that was brought up in both the videos that I saw (Round Table and Democratic vs. Republican) was the issue of the economy and if the unemployment rate is a little over 10% then maybe spending trillions of dollars on a Health Care plan is not the smartest choice for the American People today.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think with most situations in life, the most difficult things or for the things that will cause the biggest change, there is never a good time, so in my opinion we might as well pass the health care bill now and get it done with so then we can focus on other important issues.
On the issue of which points seemed to be most important, it sounded to me as though the most important issue was how it was going to be funded. Republicans and the analysts really made the point that the health care bill is extremely expensive and is going to be a huge burden on taxes especially on small businesses. They also made the point that the health care bill wouldn’t even go into effect until 2013. As for the arguments between the Democratic and Republican National Chairmans I thought that the argument was more of a draw than anything. I thought that both had good points for and against the bill. I also thought it was funny that they were constantly interrupting each other trying to make their point over the other. I also felt that both of them only talked about the issues that made their point of view look correct. As for the health care bill passing, I think that the bill has a chance of passing however I think that it is more likely than not to get denied in the Senate because even in the House where Democrats had an overwhelming majority it still took a lot of amending and still it was barely passed. I think that if it does pass it will take a very long time, probably around half a year or more.
ReplyDeleteIn response to what alyssa said i too agree that this is a really big risk and there is no better time than the present to pass this. They have never been closer and probably never will if it fails so i hope that they pass it because it could be a really good thing and if it isn't then they can just get rid of it
ReplyDeleteThe fox news round table clearly and concisely laid out the fundamental issues with the healthcare bill. As Brit Hume said, healthcare is NOT the nation’s top priority, nor should it be. The status of the economy is by and large the most important and pressing matter affecting the country today. Unemployment has rocketed to over 10%, the highest it’s been since Ronald Reagan took office in the early 1980’s. Other than the pathetic “stimulus package” put forth by the obama administration earlier this year, which did an excellent job of fattening the coffers of the nations wealthiest bank and insurance company CEO’s, he has done nothing to stem the rising tide of unemployment, the flood of foreclosures, the wave of bank failures, or the maelstrom of bankruptcies that is drowning the nation’s economy. So what’s his grand scheme? To spend over 1 TRILLION dollars on an unnecessary healthcare bill to help those who already take advantage of America’s generosity. And who’s going to pay for this? Well for a start, the hardworking upper middle class Americans, who are already the most heavily taxed socioeconomic bracket in the country! America’s national debt is the highest its been in history, and is rising at an alarming rate, and it seems the best solution the president can find to remedy that is to add to it.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the Republican vs. Democrat discussion videos, I agree with macdaddy when saying that the main argument of the Republican was the issue of the funding of the new health care proposed. Although the Democrat continually interrupted these comments and disagreed, I feel that most Americans are questing the means of which this is going to be payed for. On a more positive note regarding the issue, I agree with what macdaddy and alyssa said about how this is the closest we have been to achieving a new health care policy and although there is constant debate between the two parties and among the parties themselves, I feel that they will pass the bill.
ReplyDeletehonestly i think at this point a big part of the health care issue is that it started off as a really good idea with all of these positive outcomes and as soon as actually trying to pass it got hard a ton of people decided to stop supporting it and now everyone is complaining. but i agree with what alyssa said and there really isnt going to be an easy time for a change this big to happen so if it's already started we might as well fallow through with it because if we dont then in another few years this issue is going to come back and everyone will be saying "we need a new health care system!" and this whole process will just start all over again.
ReplyDeleteAlong with Brianna, Alyssa, and Katie i too believe that this is as close as we ever have been to a universal health care system, and i think that we should roll with it. Money, the primary concern of the republicans, will always be an issue no matter what. It was also mentioned that the health care issue is undermining the economy, which i disagree with. I have yet to go a day without hearing the economy at least mentioned. believe it or not, were smart enough to think about 2 different things in the same day.
ReplyDeleteIn looking at the "This Week with George Stephanoupolis," in the preview with the Congressman and the baby, I just have this to say: He's an idiot! First, for using a baby as a gratuitous prop, and second for arguing that people don't want the government to take over health care because they want patient choice. Who is he kidding? Patients don't have a choice when they are denied care for a pre-existing condition. Most states only have one or two plans to choose from, so they charge as much as they want, and people have to pay. Patients don't have a choice when they get sick and health insurance denies them care. He is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that patients have choice now - they don't. Health insurance companies make the rules and set their prices with only one thing in mind - Profits.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the first video, I think that Kirsten Powers had the best point saying that a lot of what the rest of Obama's presidency will be like will depend on if this healthcare bill is passed. If it doesn't pass, people won't trust him, and if it does, they will. In the Van Hollen/Pence video, I felt that Van Hollen won the debate because he had valid points of what the democratic party is trying to do, and Pence just thought the democrats "didn't get it."
ReplyDeleteJust as many of my peers have mentioned, this is by far the closest we have been in successfully implementing a revamped health care system. As Van Hollen did bring up, and as I have previously discussed, the health care debate just so happened to be one of those “big issues” that needed to be addressed, so at least we have gotten that far. What is more, the fact that the House did pass the overhaul on health care, confirms that we are certainly moving forward, yet there is still so much “ironing out” to do before there will be a general consensus on what the new health care system will really consist of. Jumping to a completely different topic, just as macdaddy had mentioned, I also found that the discussion between the Republican Chairman Michael Steele and the Democratic Chairman Tim Kaine was quite humorous since all they were really doing was talking over one another. After watching this video, and observing the apparent tension between the two opposing parties, it became even clearer to me that Congress still appears to be at the point of “here is why our way is good and your way is bad”, rather than at a point of comprise and meaningful discussion.
ReplyDelete*In my previous post, “overall” is supposed to be “overhaul”*
I watched all 4 clips and I like in the first video clip, the fox one, some of the people getting interviewed said this is not the country’s number one problem which is completely true. They also mentioned how unemployment rates are rising past ten percent. I liked also how people brought up the impact of health care reform will have on the economy. It’s crazy in the real clear politics video when they said insurance companies make 400% profits, that’s insane.
ReplyDeleteIn response to what Lance said, I agree that the payment method for the bill is ridiculous. We, as middle-upper class Americans have been taxed far too heavily, and if we add a healthcare tax to the list, we will really run out of money. However, I disagree with him in that this is an important issue that should be a priority of Congress. The provisions of the bill take power away from the insurance companies, who are a major reason for the economic crisis. The insurance company CEO's make between 12 and 24 million dollars a year because people are forced to pay their prices when they need the insurance. Or even worse, an insurance companies will drop a client and force them to pay a hospital up front thousands of dollars. If Congress successfully reformed the healthcare in a way that minimized insurance company power-like the new healthcare bill does- then there will bill millions of saved dollars that people could spend to boost the economy, and once the economy is up, employers will be looking for more employees.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting that Kirsten Powers compared Obama to being a "Reagan" or a "Clinton." I would agree that Obama would be more of a Regan figure in that he led a return of power to the Democratic party after the Bush years in the way that Reagan gave rise to a new form of Conservatism. Obama really hasn't done anything to make the general American public distrust him in the way the public distrusted Clinton, but people are uneasy about the fact that he hasn't really done anything during his first year in office.
ReplyDeleteI would say that I would not be surprised if the Health Care Bill passed or did not pass. It seems logical to say that it would pass due to the Democratic majority in Congress, yet some Democrats are not in favor of the bill, so nobody can be sure if the votes will be strictly partisan. I am not sure if I am in support of the bill passing; I am not well-informed enough.
I agree with grace that this bill will add to our countries problems and bring our economy further into debt. Also Adie’s
ReplyDeleteopinion that the fact that thirty-nine Democrats voted against the major overall of health care reform, makes it apparent that even individuals within the majority party are still not satisfied, and are in fact skeptical, of the proposed reform in the House. I think there will have to be changes and there will be fights over all the different details that go into this bill and I really do not think it’ll pass this year. I like how Andrea agreed with Bill Kristol’s point about Regan having so much support because he had bipartisan support which this bill has not achieved yet.
I agree with what Adi mentioned about the votes for the Health Care Reform bill being split in the Democratic party making it difficult to predict an outcome. I think she made a very going point in saying that the party that is majorly sponsoring the bill is not in complete agreement over their own 'brainchild,' which would seem to suggest that there will be problems down the line with the bill in all parties. If people in the same party cannot agree over something, let alone people in different parties, this indicates a problem.
ReplyDeleteFor the "Republican vs. Democrat" discussions, I think Van Hollen was the winner of the fist debate. He consistently talked about relevant facts regarding the Health Care Bill, while Pence simply made very broad generalizations, as he said the words "American People" about every sentence. Pence basically argued that the American people are against health care reform and against the Democrats, which is obviously not correct.
ReplyDeleteWhat I found kind of humorous was, in the next discussion, one of the first things Kaine, the Democrat, said was that an overwhelming majority of Americans are in favor of health care reform (in the previous clip Pence argued that the American people are against it). It just goes to show that a lot of the statements the two parties are making are very contradictory. In this second discussion between Kaine and Steele, I would say neither of them won the argument. They were continually interrupting each other, and it seemed like it was more of a competition between their two parties than a discussion over health care. When they were both yelling over each other (and it was impossible to understand what either of them were talking about), it was very difficult to take them seriously, and it became pretty funny to watch.
After watching the "Fox News Panel" i agree with the fact that i also don't think that the bill will pass the Senate. I think a good example of why it's not going to pass, is the fact that it already doesn't have the support of all of the Democrats. The Republicans we know aren't going to vote for the health care bill, but i think there going to have a real problem passing it when Democrats aren't all on the same page with this bill either. They lost 39 votes in House, from Democrats that don't like the bill. They need a majority in the senate, which i just don't see happening, to pass the bill.
ReplyDeleteIn the clip from '"FOX News Sunday" Panel On Health Care Vote In The House' I found it interesting that in order to get the Health Care Bill passed in the House, Nancy Pelosi had to centralize the bill and bring it from a more extreme left position to the center, in issues such as abortion and on the public option. Even with all of this neutralizing of the bill she still lost 39 Democrats, which to me is a signifier that it is losing strength, and I am very interested to see if the Bill passes in the Senate. If I had to make a prediction I would not predict it to pass.
ReplyDeleteDuring the Van Hollen and Pence video I noticed a statement from Hollen saying that the bill "reduces the deficit over a ten year period by more than 100 million dollars thus lessening the effect on our economy". This Health care bill is predicted to cost 1.8 trillion dollars in its first decade. 1.8 trillion minus 100 million is a chip out of the iceberg. I think that the government spending even more money they don't have is only going to worsen our economic standing.
ReplyDeleteI believe Bill Kristol made the best points in the Fox News clip. He is right when he talks about how the economy should be the number one priority of Americans and that now this costly health care bill will negatively affect the economy. When the health care bill kicks in and the economy suffers as a result I predict a huge, sweeping Republican victory in the 2010 Congressional elections.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Ryan said about the problem of the health bill negatively affecting our already suffering economy. I think that the economy should also be the number priority on the governments list. Its hard to tell what the exact problems that our economy will have from passing the health care bill. I don't think that the outcome will be anything, but a negative one. There's no way that introducing a billion dollar plus plan can end up helping our economy. I also agree with Ryan that passing this bill will cause a big problem for the 2010 elections, for all democrats.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't know very may details regarding the health care reform bill. I think its clear that most members in both the house and senate don't really comprehend the bills either, or at least don't feel comfortable with it. As Adi pointed out, the fact that a large chunk of democrats were opposed to the bill being passed emphasizes the weakness of it. I don't agree with what grace said about the bill making our economy weaker. I honestly could only see it helping put money back into the economy. However, I think that this bil is very unpredictable and that is why members in congress will not allow it to be passed very easily. The first video pointed out how the passing or denying of this bill will in essence make or break Obama's presidency. It is the first step that he has made in trying to evoke "change" that he promised all through out his campaign. If the bill isn't passed then I think it will fuel the republican's fire and increase their strength even more. I agree with what most other people have said in that health care is not the main focus in America. Instead, people are running around crazy over our instable economy. I do think that the two issues in a way coincide with one another. By passing the bill my belief is that taxes will go up on the wealthier people. I think that the bill would make those much less firtunate more willing to spend their money on more affordable health care which could help stimulate the economy. There is a possibility that the health care reform bill could have a negative effect, but I think it could only help.
ReplyDeleteIn the "Meet the Press" video, it was stated that the Health Care Reform Bill will just bring our economy further into debt. Such massive reform requires a great amount of taxpayer dollars, money which will not help our fallen economy in any way. Additionally, the fact that thirty nine Democratic members voted against the Bill suggests that it may need to be revised or altered in some way.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to the ‘round table’ discussion, one of the points that I felt was most important was when Brit Hume stated that the issue that is most important in our country is not the Health Care bill, but rather the struggling economy, and the only thing that Obama has really done about it has been the stimulus bill, which was not necessarily successful.
ReplyDeleteAs I was watching the discussion between Van Hollen and Pence, I believe that Pence won the discussion. To me it seemed like he used more facts and was more relevant, and he also made a good point that the democrats have been ignoring the American people and digging us into a larger financial hole. Van Hollen on the other hand seemed to almost ramble about what the Democrats are attempting to do, and less on actual examples of how they are moving the country in a positive direction.
In the round table discussion the economy was a prevalent issue. There seemed to be conflict over the funding of the Health Care reform and the burden it might place on the economy. I agree that if the health care reform does pass while the economy is at a low the tax increases and a deeper budget deficit would greatly impact the American people. Although the Health care reform would help to provide inexpensive health insurance, the tax increases might hurt the people more during a time when there is such a high unemployment rate. In the Republican vs. Democrat debate I think that Van Hollen had stronger arguments. He addressed the concerns of the American people about health insurance and how the Democrats were working to change those concerns.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Greg about the government spending money they don’t have. Although the Health Care Reform would help many Americans who can’t afford health insurance, I don’t understand where the government is planning on getting the money. If they raise taxes and lower health insurance premiums for Americans will it be more beneficial than just keeping taxes at this level and paying more for health insurance?
In the few comments above this, it has been stated that the Health Care Reform Bill would not be of any help to our country's already hindered ecomony. Although the bill may bring many good things if passed, the money issue is hard to ignore. I agree that if passes, the huge sums of money that would be required to fund the bill would significantly impact our ecomony in a negative way. I believe that it may be, one, passed more easily, and two, less of a financial burden to our country if the bill was put off until the economy recovered a bit first. While it is predicted my many that the bill would be bad for the ecomony, I thought that Hilary brought up an interesting point that, if the bill passed, the lower class would be more willing to pay for affordable heath care, therefore stimulating the economy.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Brita. I feel that it would be a bad choice for the Congress to pass due to the problem that we are having with our economy. Personally i feel that it would be a good and smart choice for Congress to wait and pass the bill after our economy has recovered. It is said that this bill would not positively impact the depression that we are going through, therefore we need to wait and be smart with our decisions. This bill being passed right now would not be the best choice that congress could make.
ReplyDeleteI agree with McKenna when she says that the discussion was "more of a competition between their two parties than a discussion over health care." When both sides are too busy arguing I think they lose a lot of their credibility and it is difficult to take them seriously and becomes more of a mockery.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Katie when she said that people "decided to stop supporting it" and that's when everything becoming problematic. We are already in this and I think it is something that needs to get done and in the end we all need to come together as a society and support it even if it isn't of the smoothest roads.
In each video, the democrats seemed to be comfortable and smug with their victory in the House. I could be wrong but it almost appeared to be false confidence in hopes to keep morale up for the much harder upcoming battle in the Senate. The best points seemed to come from the Democrats, but they also felt to be very selective facts.
ReplyDeleteAs some have already pointed out, Mr. Hume on "Fox News" had a very good point that Health Care is not the country's biggest concern and that the struggling economy should be focused on.
I agree with the point made that the biggest problem our country is facing is our struggling economy. Without a stable economy, jobs will continue to be lost and people will continue to lose their homes. It will also be hard for Obama to gain support of the American people if he does not have more success in stimulating the economy. I believe that should be at the top of his priority list.
ReplyDeleteIn the round table clip, it is intersting how they bring up the aspect of how the health care bill is not the most important for us. The only reason that it seems important is because Obaama has made it number one on his regime. Fixing the economy an the unemployment crisis must have priority, once the govt. haa a stable base to star on, congress will have a better chance of passing the bill. It will be more likely to pass once the current congress has succeeded on passing multiple bills involving unemployment.
ReplyDeleteA point that was brought up in the "round table" discussions video that I found important and interesting was that Americans are more concerned with the economy than they are with the health care reform. I think if the bill is passed then our country will go further into debt. I do not think the bill will pass in the Senate in the next few months. Like Troy said, the bill must need revision and work if thirty nine democrats voted against it, and that will take time.
ReplyDeleteIt is noticeable that there is much heated debate concerning economical issues regarding the Affordable Health Care for America Act of 2009. Such cincern for the consequences of a law is necessary, but it also blindsides the American public from the core issues of Health Care. The actual propositions of the bill should be considered and scrutinized, before even considering the procedures of costs. The reason why though, that such core details have been mainly ignored, is because the American has exposed a low concern for the bill. First, people are given very little detail about the individual actions of the bill. Therefore, average people can not debate about the actual bill...but instead about what would be the generalized effects of the bill, and this is mainly about economical issues, due to the recent and current dramatic events of America's economy. So since people have been directly affected by the economical events, and not by the actions of a proposed bill not yet enacted into law, people will develop a substantial affection for what has an effect on the economy. Health care is therefore a limitedly concerned policy, and the momentum of the initial urges by a Democratic President and a Democratic Conress has cooled off.
ReplyDeleteThe House Vote if 220-215 is the "straw that broke the camel's back." Such energy and work put in by leading Democrats led merely to a vote in which they obtained only two votes over the necessary 218. Such a narrow passage through the House must be heartbreaking for the strong supporters of Health Care. Especially since, after much work to create a "Bipartisan" resoultion and vote, all expcept one Republican vote against, while 39 Democrats did not maintain the same kind of partisanship as the Republicans. It is therefore a slim chance for the bill to pass the Senate, with affluent moderate Democrats leaning toward the side of the GOP. Then, this hyped bill of which has consumed much media attention an debate, will have died, just like the attempt during Clinton's Administration. America will then be able to move on with more important issues
I completely agree with Brita and Danielle in that the Health Care Reform Bill would potentially have better results if it were to be put off until a time of economic stability. Many believe that the number one issue for many Americans, and for Congress, is the economy. In a time of such an economic downturn, it would not make any sense to attempt to force through a bill that may have a bad impact on our economy. In theory, universal health care is a great idea. But, in practicality, the best time to create universal health care would not be during the United State's current economy.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how Kristen Powers compared President Obama to President Reagan. I agree with Briana when she agreed with Kristen Powers. I believe President has a vision for the country, but he first needs to gain the trust of the American people.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the first Fox News Panel, I agree with many of the points that the panelists explained. I think that although Health Care Reform is definitely an important issue today, I feel that it is not the first priority on the American people's agenda for change. As was stated during the debate, the economic struggle is in fact what is on most American's minds and the President should focus on that issue first. The one opinion that I do not agree with is the one about the Health Care Reform bill not passing at all. I think that their is an enormous momentum for change in America and I wouldn't be surprised if the bill was passed.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the democrats won the debates in both videos. I believe that their points were stronger and that they had back up for each of their statements as the republicans did not have as much to back up for their points. I believe that the republicans were throwing out random points to make the reform look bad. Such as steele talking about the used car and how he isnt going to pay for a car now but wait four years to get it. I believe that politics takes the end of 2009 but i believe it should be passed in early to mid 2010. I believe that the united states should have health care for the commmon people because alot of young americans cant afford health care and are cut off from their parents health care at the age of 23. Meaning that it isnt just the people who are homeless or immigrants that are going to benefit. i believe that the bill will help young and old america and give everyone the chance to have health care. And will free up hospitals and urgent cares for the people who truly need the help and medical attention of those sources.
ReplyDeleteIn the Democrat / Republican, Kaine / Steele debate, I agree with McKenna that neither did a very good job of making their case. They hit the superficial, tip of the iceberg. I also agree with people like Eric who argue that the Fox News round table had the best point when they argued that health care should probably not be tackled right now when we have bigger problems in this country right now that should be a priority.One point that people seem to miss though, is that maybe Obama is trying to get this through while there's a Democrat White House, Senate, and House. Do you think there'll be any chance of success if the Republicans win the Senate or House in 2010? Maybe Obama knows it's now or never.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with the statements said during the Meet The Press video. I think that if we are going to introduce a new Health Care system, it would seem more rational to fix the economic problems first, rather than just throwing a Health Care bill on top of a conflicting system that is not working. I am a supporter of Health Care Reform, but for it to be effective to its highest extent, the country's economy should be in top shape before it is introduced.
ReplyDeleteThe topic of the health care bill not being the American people's priority was established in many of the videos and I agree with it. In the discussion that said that unemployment has risen around 3% since Obama took office established this idea very well. It would be better to fix the economy first, then take on the challenging but needed reform on health care. It is like this metaphor "you wake up and the alarm is ringing, the oven is on, and the phone is ringing, what do you take care of first? You get out of the house because it is on fire." We need to take care of the economy before we tackle other problems.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Alyssa how the video showed great arguments on the taxes that the health care bill would have. It defiantly would not be the smartest choice in the economy to slap on more taxes on the American people. Congress should try to stabilize the economy before even thinking about the health care bill.
ReplyDeleteDavid Brooks & EJ Dionne had some very interesting points about the way public opinion shifts over time -- Dionne said "Once you pass something like this, the voters like it," and that twenty years from now, if today's health care reform measures pass, even most Republicans will grow to like the changes. (Of course, keep in mind that if health care reform passes now, in twenty years' time these changes will be considered status quo. There are a lot of people who accept things if they've been happening the same way for a considerable amount of time.) I think Dionne is right: as long as the reforms get a chance and pass, people will gradually come around.
ReplyDeleteI think that with the number of Democrats not supporting the Bill, it shows that there's a lot of indecision regarding it's final form and how it should look like. I also agree that this isn't America's number one concern, the economy should be, fact is that healthcare is at the top of Obama's to-do list, and so it is best that this bill can pass as soon as it can so that the White Houses focus can go back to fixing the economy.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Brita's comment, it could be true, in that the underprivileged paying for this bill could in turn help stimulate the economy. In that case, I would be for this Bill. It seems that the only reason not to pass it would be what it would provide for and its little importance in relation to the Economy. But if this could help the economy, politicking in Congress should iron out most of the provisions of the bill and it would then be worthy of passing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what jack said in his comment which mentioned that the number of democrats against the health care bill shows that it needs revisions in order to succeed. In order to get a sufficient vote to pass the health care bill, revisions are needed frm both parties. The two parties are going to need to realize that both will not get 100 percent of what they want, and once that happens compromises will be successful. A health care bill is inevitable with Obama, congress needs to revise it so it is the best for every class.
ReplyDeleteI agree with McKenna's statements regarding the Pence/Van Hollen debate. Pence seemed very aggressively partisan the whole time, using spun and exaggerated language (he described these reforms as "government takeover" and claimed that liberals only support the measures as a means of furthering their "liberal, big government agenda"), while Van Hollen remained more neutral and used evidence (like statistics about insurance providers' profits) to support his case.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the first video, I know that the whole Health Care issue is big right now, but it's taking a lot of attention from the economy, which really is the biggest problem the country is facing. Now, it may not necessarily be a bad thing, because if we concentrate too much in the problem we will never make any progress. But also, we have to keep in mind the economy still is the biggest issue and should be one of our main concerns (when it comes to "fixing problems"). On the other video with Van Hollen and Pence, it seemed biased. They chose their words carefully so it sounded like the whole situation supported their side of the Health Care issue.
ReplyDelete-Lety
I agree with Lettybetty. Health care is extremely important, but as of right now, I think the economy is the bigger issue. Every day jobs are lost and people keep on going deeper and deeper in debt. Also, agreeing with LettyBetty, we should not focus all of our attention on just one thing. We need to branch out and fix alot of problems that our country has right now, but the economy should definatly be at the top of the list.
ReplyDeleteI agree with jack_nolan, I think that there's a lot of indecision within both parties which will only delay the process even more. And I also agree with him about Health Care being number one in Obama's "to-do list". I think that (he obviously wants a better health plan for Americans) but also this way, it will look like he's "doing something", specially since everybody's been saying that he hasn't done anything and are not approving of his job so far. It will be easier for him to take on one by one, so as soon as Health Care Bill passes (or if), he'll immediately take over the economy problem (or at least we hope he does).
ReplyDelete-Lety
On the 'Republican vs Democrat' debate, in terms of just the overall impression, I personally think that the democrat, Van Hollen, did a better job. His facts supported his argument which was insightful and gave light to the bill. His tone and points were persuasive and hopeful, yet confident. The Republican, although prepared with statistics on last year's election, seemed to not answer the questions fully and was very defensive, just in his attitude. However, both politicians touched on that the economy and unemployment were the important factors on the pending support of the Health Care Bill.
ReplyDeleteOn the 'round table' discussion videos, which points (either for or against the chances of health care reform being passed) seemed most important? Which seemed the most logical and to have the best arguments to back them up?
ReplyDeleteIt was bluntly expressed in both of the ‘round table” discussion videos that the country’s main priority is the economy, and it will continue to be the economy until the country is out of this recession. Why? The answer is simple. Most people aren’t directly affected when it comes to healthcare. Yes, they don’t enjoy paying insurance or having to go to the hospital for retreatment, but if you think about it, payments and hospital visits seem insignificant to us until our monthly payment is increased or our visit is a result of a tragic event. The economy, on the other hand, affects us in every possible way. It affects our stability, education, and life quality.
On the 'Republican v. Democrat' discussion videos, who seemed to win the argument in your mind? Was it the Democrat (Van Hollen, Kaine) or the Republican (Pence, Steele)? Why? Which arguments stood out to you as making the most sense?
I found Van Hollen to be slightly more effective than Pence because I felt as though Pence only focused on the abstract wishes of the American people while Van Hollen managed to throw in a couple of good points. In the end, neither were up to par.
I am agreeing with a lot of people on the Republican v Democrat debate as Van Hollen winning it. He was much better and supported a lot of his facts with evidence. Pence did sort of just talk about the same stuff and brought it up again and again. Hollen responded to everything that Pence through at him with accurate responses with supported evidence. I think that if we had to choose a winner in this debate, Hollen was victorious.
ReplyDeleteI realize you may not have all the relevant background information yet, but what do you think the chances are that a major comprehensive health care reform bill will be passed in the next few months? Are you in support of this bill passing? Why/why not?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I have no idea whether or not the Democratic party will be able to pass the bill. I am in support of Healthcare because I believe everyone should be able to afford it and that a company should not be allowed to remove healthcare in the midst of a tragedy due to the fine print in the insurance plan.
I agree with many of my classmates’ concerns on whether or not the bill should be passed at this time due to the economic harship,however, I feel as though the country should strive to pass it or create another bill regardless of our concerns because frankly neglecting the immense cost of insurance is irresponsible.
The round table debate exposed the main concern that the US is in a unstable state and needs to boost the economy. The health care debate is very important, but the focus should be on the economy. I also agree with many of the speakers that it is unlikely for our crippled nation to support an expensive health care plan.
ReplyDeleteIn the discussion between Van Hollen and Pence, I believe neither man "won," but I was very impressed by the arguments Pence made. He was very clear and concise in presenting his ideas. He rationally stated that the last thing the people of a weak economy need is a raise in taxes. He was logical and backed up his arguments with support. Van Hollen did a much better job in presenting the Democrat side than Kaine did in his debate with Steele. Kaine was unrealistic and not very credible at times. I believe Steele was right when he said that Republicans do not oppose health care for all. Republicans, on the other hand, don't want a government take over of health care, "mandates on states that can't afford," and a costly plan that won't start until after four years of extra taxes.
I agree with Lety and Eddie. I think that it is a good thing to try and improve healthcare, but I think that the economy is more important at the moment, given the state its in. Brit Hume mentioned that the Healthcare Bill has a very long way to go to becoming passed and I think that given the amount of time and work put into this bill, the Legislative Branch needs to focus on the economy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with McKenna that the debate of health care has been too much about politics than about the core concepts and the realistic outcomes.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Annie that the bill is very far from finished. There hopefully with be many re-workings of the bill and amendment changes to make it work for our nation. Because this process has such a long way to go, I think the US should focus on helping the unemployed obtain jobs and boosting the economy.
grammar change *There hopefully will (not with)...
ReplyDeleteI think that in the "round table" discussion videos, the point about funding the new health care system is the most important. I think that the arguments that the opposition brought up were more realistic as to what is going to happen to the bill. While provisions have been made to help bear the financial burdens that the bill will put on the government, I think it is likely that at least some of these will fail to pass, resulting in a growth in the deficeit.
ReplyDeleteIn the discussion between Mike Pence and Chris Van Hollen, there were a lot of discussion questions and statements that really made me think. One of the questions was can we afford a trillion dollar Health Care Reform Bill with a 10.2% unemployment rate. Chris Van Hollen answered saying that this health care bill reduces deficit over a ten year period of time. Mike Pence answered the same question saying that the last thing you do in a recession is raise taxes and thats what this healthcare bill does. I'm going to have to agree with Pence's response to this question because I dont think that the government should be placing the country any deeper in debt.
ReplyDeleteIn the Round Table discussion, I also noticed a large amount of emphasis on the condition of the economy. I think a lot people are scared to support something that requires a lot of funding, because the economy is unstable and it is hard to determine whether the passing of the health care bill will hurt the economy or not. I thought this was a very valid point, because money is a concern to all Americans at this time.
ReplyDeleteLike many above contributors, I, too, think that the economy is more important than healthcare. However, I really feel that an improvement of healthcare can help unemployment rates and the economy. Van Hollen, in his debate clip, made a statement stating that a passing of the healthcare bill will reduce the deficit by a large margin over just a few years. I do not think that one issue is more important than the other, just that both issues need to be faced.
I agree with Alexa in that, an improved health care system would be better for the economy than leaving it alone and focusing on recouping from our losses. Though I don't think it will directly help reduce unemployment, I definitely think that if done right, it will be take a lot of the financial burden off of those that are struggling. Less money spent on health care means more money can be freed up for a variety of investments, which will hopefully boost the improving but not completely healed economy.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the Republican vs. Democrat videos, I ultimately think that, if a "winner" were to be decided upon, it would go to the Republican Mr. Pence.
ReplyDeleteComing from both a logical and a performance/media analyst's point of view, the Democratic representative, Mr. Van Hollen stated many broad-reaching claims that had little backing or had little to do with the subject itself. Mr. Pence used a different strategy which, although conniving and exaggerated, would be quite effective in swaying the average viewer. Mr. Pence used personal jabs at the opposition, and melodramatic adjectives like "heartbreaking" to push his point and his party into a sympathetic light.
In regards to my actual prediction of the Senate's result, I unfortunately predict that the bill will not pass in the Senate.
I cannot see how a bill which so narrowly got passed in the house could even dream to be passed in the Senate when 30+ Democrats voted against it previously.
Hahaha, how funny!
ReplyDeleteAfter reading a lot of these comments, I have changed my mind about my previous statement.
I decided to watch the Van Hollen vs. Pence debate a second time and, with other people's comments in mind, I can see that Hollen actually did have a better message and more supporting evidence that did the Republican Representative.
His "cheap shots" at the democratic party served only to discredit his position.
I give Van Hollen extra props for debating his side on a conservative-leaning network.
It's funny how one's mind can change and suddenly something previously seen can dramatically change in meaning and/or impact.
:P
I would also add that I agree with Jack's statement.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that the American people would prioritize the economic issues the country faces over a health care reform. I would rather see the government directing their efforts towards financial and job issues than spend even MORE money on an already controversial reform.
"Meet the Press" suprised me when I saw that 39 Democrats had voted against the bill, and the partisanship shown by the democrats portrays not just that this health care bill may be controversial in one party but also shows the growing number of those who do not see this bill as favorable. I think that Obama has such a great task at hand that even members in the Deomcratic party think it may be too much. Not only that, but with tthe current American economy I do not think trying to pass such a bill would benefit the economy but put it into a bigger slump.
ReplyDeleteIn the Fox News discussion, Mara Liasson claimed that the healthcare bill is becoming increasingly centrist. She said that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had to change the bill's language on the public option and on abortion from liberal to a moderate in order to appease conservatives. As a result, she lost 39 democratic supporters, but the bill still passed in the House. I think that the same process will have to occur in the Senate for a bill to pass there, and I think the moderate versions of the bills have a lot better chance of becoming law than the liberal-leaning versions. And the sooner this process can occur, the better. When the Senate version of the bill and the House version of the bill collide and must be reconciled, there will be plenty of other issues up for debate. I agree with Mara Liasson: it will be much easier to settle the differences between the two versions of the healthcare bill much if each is as centrist (and similar) as possible.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion at this point I dont think the Democrats are going to be able to pass the bill. I do support the idea of it, and I dont know a lot about the situation politically but to me it feels like the public is getting tired of all this fighting back and forth and with everyone worrying about employment it just seems easier to abandon the efforts for health care reform. And with such a long way to go before the bill can be passed there would have to be a lot more people supporting it than there are now. Unless something happens to convince a lot of people that new health care would be worth all the money and effort I think its a losing battle.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of my colleagues in the video of the Democrat vs. Republican that Van Hollen presented himself a little stronger.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jack and Michael, focus on issues at hand such as increasing the number of jobs or figuring out how to stabilize the economy. Health Care Reform should not be a priority now but rather be taken care of after our economy is fixed or made better than it is now, there is no point in risking a bigger economic crisis.
On "Republican Vs Democrat" video, it seems like that Republicans have completely run out of idea.
ReplyDelete"Government takeover of the health care","Trillion dollar overhaul","we can work out the solution"etc.That's what happen when you are in the minority.Rensentful and powerless,Republicans are desperate enough use a baby "Maddy"(in the beginning of the video) to make their point on healthcare in the Congressional debate.
To my opnion, health care is not the issue. It's all about Republican's attempt to take back majority. That's why they were using NJ governer election and VA governer election to prove them right. But does those governer elections have anything to do with healthcare reform?
Democratic Chairman Tim Kaine is right. It's not about the government's takeover of the healthcare. It's an effort by the Republicans to show off for the insurance company.
PS:Steele's car delivery analogy is hilarious.
I agree with what what Alexa said about the economy. It does seem like a lot of people are afraid to support things that require a lot of money and funding because of the horrible state that our economy is in right now. I understand why they are careful about praising health care because it is such a costly endeavor but I think that in the long run it will be a benefit our economy and it will help unemployment rates. I don't think it is right to say that one issue is more important than the other because they are extremely different and both have their pros in cons. I just think that in the long term having a better health care program will help stimulate the economy.
ReplyDeleteIn response to my classmates' comments about the economy:
ReplyDeleteI agree that an economically ailing America is not an ideal condition in which to push legislation that will increase taxes. However, the Obama administration has already enacted legislation to deal with our economic problems (the stimulus package). As such, it's unfair to say that the economy has never been Obama's priority. And though the stimulus package was by no means perfect, it did prevent a second Great Depression. On top of this, healthcare and the economy are related. Reduced healthcare costs could stimulate the economy by allowing people to spend money at the mall rather than in the emergency room.
Something that seemed really interesting to me, though it was maybe not the most important point, was how all of the conversations used the health care bill as a tool to judge the possible outcomes of the House midterm elections in 2010. It seems like every action of Congress, even in a non-election year, is dissected and analyzed to gain a sense of the "playing field" for future elections. I did not expect to hear about the election in these talks, yet questions about "safe" and "vulnerable" seats and the democratic majority were almost more prominent in the discussion than ideas about the health care bill itself. It is very interesting that the politics of the Congressional system is completely inseperable from its actual lawmaking.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I do not think that it is very likely that the health care bill will pass in the Senate. I think a vote of 220-215 (a majority of FIVE with only one Republican voting yea) in the House is a far cry from what Rep Van Hollen calls a "clear message" for the ultimate passage of this bill. The health care system in America undoubtedly has many problems which need to be addressed, but I think Rep Pence makes a good point when he says that the amount of spending involved in this particular bill will only cause more problems for America's debt (and for the Democratic party).
I thought Kristen Powers had an interesting viewpoint in comparing Clinton and Reagan and how they were perceived by the public. I think for the most part people do have the belief that Obama has a vision of what he wants to accomplish, however whether or not they agree with that vision is the matter at hand. Many of his plans do indeed trend towards a little more power in the hands of the central government, and heavier taxes on the "rich". I also agree partially with what was said on MSNBC, that once the bill passes it will become more popular. Once the dust clears and it is passed, those that were throwing hissy fits will turn their efforts elsewhere and the bill will then be seemingly more popular. As some of the analysts said, peoples main concern is the economy and whether or not they are going to continue having a steady paycheck to put grub on the table for their fams. However, being that this seems to be the first major effort by Obama to do something, much attention is being paid to the matter and many see it as very important politically. With that comes the hoopla, and the distraction from what is more important to the vast majority of the nation- their pocketbooks. Find a way to help people out with that ( easier said than done)- and your golden to get anything you want from them
ReplyDeleteA strong opinion in both the videos and the comments here is that the economy is a more important issue than health care reform right now. I agree with this, yet I think that it is important to remember that the economy is not a simple problem that can be "tackled" or solved easily. The economy is an extremely complex issue which in the past has required a lot of time, money, legislation, and/or drastic events to create significant change. Obama tried to solve the problem with money and legislation already, an attempt that did not work out as hoped. Action is definitely needed to better the economy, as is time, but (as JK points out) the time to act for health care reform is now, while Obama has the support of both houses.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lance. Healthcare is important, but it's definitely not as important as our nation's economy. It's ridiculous for both Democrats and Republicans to spend that much time on healthcare. Who is going to pay for this bill when we have over 10 percent of unemployment? What is the meaning of having debate over healthcare when the nation has the worst economy since the Great Depression? Government takeover of Healthcare? Healthcare overhaul? We have heard this a thousand times already. Democrats pass a complex bill does not mean we should waste our time debating and exaggerating its importance. We have more important things to do.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the video featuring Republican Pence and Democrat Van Hollen, I felt that collectively, Van Hollen won the affections of the people of the United States. Yes, Pence had the final word in the debate, but that does not necessarily mean he proved his point about Healthcare Reform in the most significant way. One part of the debate that continuously bothered me was how Republican Pence continually reverted to the idea of the American people as a whole disapproving of the bill. We understand that healthcare is a hot topic in the political world right now, and I believe Pence's argument would have been more beneficial if he would have stated specific alternatives he and his party believed to be appropriate, or if he tried to amend the healthcare bill in a way that could please both Democrats and Republicans. Pence used most of his time to criticize the Democratic Party and their abilities, while Van Hollen focused more on explaining what was currently going on with the bill and how the ending vote played out in the House.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with Maddy that the Obama administration needs to focus its’ efforts on the economy. Every time I turn on the TV. or read articles on the internet, I am constantly bombarded with news about the health care debate. Yet, I have noticed that regular Americans (family and friends) are not concerned with the health care bill passing as much as dealing with the dwindling economy. Perhaps, Obama needs to address American’s immediate concerns and news sources need to focus more on the effectiveness of the stimulus package rather than constantly debating about health care. I also agree with Troy that discussion of health care reform would perhaps be more appropriate and productive in a time when the economy is stable.
ReplyDeleteTo me the issue of abortion seemed the most important. It seemed that the democrat lady was very persistent about this issue and was very concerned about the limitations placed on abortion rights by the health care reform bill now in progress in Congress.
ReplyDeleteVan Hollen seemed to have the better argument to me just because Pence seemed to be constantly on the defensive and jabbing at Van Hollen to the point that Van Hollen seemed to have to defend himself. The most important issue that stood out to me was the issue of what the American people wanted, but to be honest, i feel like the American people are a tad wishy washy, and one year we will all be democratic, and the next we will all be repulican! it just seems strange to me to be able to think of their ideas as a whole because I can guarantee i think completely differently from everyone else. What made the most sense was when they began to talk about money and how they were spending money on health care when we have 10% of americans out of work
As almost everyone has mentioned, the cost of implementing and supporting this type of reform raises the question of how it will be paid for, and the commentators in the "Round Table" Discussion seemed to ask this question, as well, and there never seemed to be a definitive answer. In the MSNBC clip, the man sitting next to David Brooks (I never saw his name) explained that it will be supported by a "millionaire's tax, basically." However, then David Brooks goes on to say reasons why such a tax would not be sufficient. It reminds me of the Joe Biden SNL video - he says very clearly that many Americans want to know where the trillions of dollars will come from, but then he just moves on to another topic. I saw in a poll that most Americans do support health care reform, but they don't feel like they should be the ones paying for it.
ReplyDeleteAs for a health care reform bill passing in the Senate in the next few months, I'm not sure whether it can happen. A 2/3 majority in the Senate will be much harder to come by, and it seems to me that many aspects of it will need to be reworked, such as the amendment on abortion, as Brittany stated. I think some type of health care reform in necessary, as millions of Americans simply cannot afford medical care, and I feel that passing a bill is obviously the first step. However, I feel like I don't know any of the specifics of this particular bill, and, as seen from the various videos, it becomes confusing when we are constantly hearing contradictory information regarding it.
I think that the most important idea out of all of this is that Health Care Reform isn't America's priority which is very true. We talk way too much about this which elevates it to some extent just as Mr. Humes mentioned. The people are in discontent because this could affect the fiscal problems that people already have. Where would they get the money to uphold this if it does pass? Mr. Humes also makes another good point that if this bill does pass it would "burn the economy" futher which would be bad for the democrats. However, for the democrats being able to pass such a bill is a great achievement on its own since there was alot of oppositions for this bill. That being said, Kristen Powers gets it right that this passage of the bill would affect the power of the democrats,in a good way if it does pass but in a bad way since it would decline the economy further. I also wonder if Obama would either do a Clinton or Reagan. It would be interesting to see which past president he would be.
ReplyDeleteThe Fox News Sunday special with the gang: Kristol, Liason, Britt Hume and Kirsten Powers presented facts that were clear and present. Hume really nailed that the number one priority for the country is the economy. Democrats upon Obamas inauguration passed the Stimulus which was nothing more than a Democrat wish list and pork and now you have health care which will burden the economy further with mores taxes and spending. Powers brought up that Obama has been playing "small ball" while not looking at the whole scope of the game. Kristol backed Powers by using comparisons of Reagan and Clinton. Clinton was very vague about his message and only danced around with public opinion. Reagan, although with a Democratic House was supported in his tax cuts and defense spending because he had a vision and he knew where to lead the US. For as much as Reagan was Republican he was very well liked by many Democrats and agreed with him.
ReplyDeleteI watched only the second video:
ReplyDeleteAnd overall, I was sommewhat angered by both party representatives they had answering questions. Though it is clear that the democratis happy about the bill, He did not answer the question about how only one republican voted for the bill, he dodged it compeltely and instead gushed about the bill. Though I am in favor of the Health Care reform, I was interested in hearing an answer. On the other side the republican seemed to state things without any major support. He claimed that the american people were against this bill and showed an overwhelming opposition and that the democrats ignored it and pushed their own agenda. He was basing this purely off of the town hall meetings and mentioned "rallies" without any specifics. he is taking places or gatherings, where obviously those opposed are going to appear overwhelmingly. However, those who do not oppose are not going to an anti health care rally or to take over a town hall meeting. In AP statistics, this would be a major sampling error.
In the D v R arguements, the Republican seem to give a better arguement. He talks about the numbers associated with this. There were 39 democrats who voted against the Health Care bill showing that the opposition isn't only in the Republican side. There was mention of the people movement against this bill and the Democrat didn't do this. He made it seem that the government knows whats best for the people so it'll do what it must. Moreover, he sounded way too much like Obama in that heard all of this before (maybe even word for word) and it is getting way too redundant. And when the democrat said something about the 2008 Republican majority no doing anything about health care, he just doesn't get it. We were at war. The Republicans had their priorities and stuck to it. We were already spending alot in the war effort and there wasn't much room for anything else.
ReplyDeleteAnother point of Fox news Sunday was that one Republican voted for this health care measure! 39 democrats against! The 18 democrats districts that McCain carried in 2008 but voted for health care overhal will be in riski of loosing their job!
ReplyDeleteBriefly for MSNBC Meet the Press, the Senate is not going to pass the way the house passed it. There are too many liberal democrats who want the public option and the Hobb's (abortion) amendment gone and you have conservatives on the opposite end. If anything else this bill is going to a hot potato on both sides and both sides are racing to put their formula in. An interesting point brought up is currently we have a gov't revenue of 18% and a spending one of 20%. After this health bill if passed will have 25% spending and 18% revenue. What are you going to fill that gap with? Anyone? and that's where the great debate will be on and where Republicans can strive.
just watcvhed the second video:
ReplyDeleteFirst, when they smiled at the camera it was really creepy
Second, I think that if this bill doesn't pass, which many are now speculating, would be entirely ridiculous. THis goes somewhat off of my last comment, but though there has been no vote for the public solely on the Health Care plan, we did have our say. The country had their say when they voted for a president named Barrack Obama. It is not as if his health care reform plan lay somewhere in the background of his campaign. This was very much one of his key issues and discussion topics throughout the election. Anyone who voted for Obama knew about this plan, as did those against. By voting him into office with an overwhelming number in the electoral college, we voted for this plan, and if congress does not reflect this at some point, I will be very disappointed.
After watching the two videos, I believe that the issue of America's economy is the most important issue at hand. While healthcare reform is an important topic, I believe that big strides and changes cannot be made successful by the Obama administration until the problems with our economy are somewhat remedied or focused on. I believe our ecomony is the structure upon which America grows, and without a prosperous one, little to nothing can be done effectively.
ReplyDeleteYou all are going to like this. The third video: FNS with Congressmen Pence(R) and Van Hallen just shows the polarity of this issue of health care. Van Hollen puts an optimist outlook that we are bringing the issue of health care to light and that this bill is on a long journey. We (Dems) got it out of the House and the Senate will have their chance. He says the health bill will cost less and save 100 billion. Oh right Congressman you make progressiuve viewpoints and present that greedy insurance companies are making 400% profits. He's right that health insurance needs reform but the real debate is does government have the right to takeover healthcare?
ReplyDeleteHere are just some notes from Mike Pence, Republicans did double the national debt under Bush and that's why they lost in 2006 and 08. But now Democrats have put gov't spending on "steroids". With the stimulus, the coming health bill and cap and trade it's putting us in trillions in debt in the next few years and who's going to pay for it!! You all! And there's more: 729 billion in new taxes and that's occuring in a recession with 10.2% unemployment!!
Going now to the interview with the DNC and GOP chairs, the Gov't takeover, gov't control. Republicans have been blocked from any amendments and recomendations to make this bipartisan. It's one thing to fix health care, it's another to take control. Where's the tort reform? where are some of the itims that do not require 2,000 pages to write about!! Making mandates to states that can't afford these reforms. Hillary Clinton said that there's a vast right wing conspiracy, well start introducing the VLWC. Frankly I'm not impressed with either party and their ethics in politics, but I choose the path of individual responsibility and fiscal restraint.
Like Michael said, I think that we should be spending money on issues that are not only more important, but less controversial than the healthcare bill. Until we fix the unemployment in our country, I'm tempted to say that everything else should be sidelined.
ReplyDeletePersonally I am very torn in my opinion on the health care reform. I'm not sure if I'm for or against it. As they said on the video it is a very big deal that the House passed a bill, which has been the first in a long time. They also mentioned in the video how the U.S seemed to give off a very good message by voting for Obama for president. The U.S. citizens showed that they wanted to stop sweeping things under the rug and just face them. They're are many positive and negative points in which they touched on. It would be great for all of us to have health care in the future for our kids and grandchildren, but it also cuts money from our fellow friends' paychecks who are in the medical field. It also affects the paychecks of people in the insurance field. Once again I am torn on the subject due to the fact that recently my family had not had health care because we could not afford it. Talking about affording it, our nation needs to see if we can afford a bill such as this.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with Eddie's statement that Van Hollen won the debate. While Pence kind of fumbled around the questions over and over again, it seemed to me that Van Hollen really knew what he was talking about, and came into the debate with a clear standpoint on the issues at hand.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the MSNBC video, I am convinced that the passage of the health care bill in the Senate will be a difficult and potentially very lengthy process. David Brooks stated the philosophy guiding supporters of the passage of the health care bill was that once it was passed, people would probably like it; it would become “sacred.” Yet, he also stated that the health care bill would be unaffordable and would contribute to a gigantic gap between “25 spending and 18 revenue.” I find these two statements to be somewhat contradictory; why will Americans like a Health Care Bill that contributes even more to the financial crisis?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the people who believe that Van Hollen won the debate. He had a lot of evidence and was able to back up each of his statements and answers to the questions, while Pence seemed almost like he was trying to avoid answering some. Van Hollen allowed there to be an good, accurate debate.
ReplyDeleteI found it the attempted comparisons to Clinton and Reagan of President Obama very interesting. As Phillip brought up, Reagan was a well liked president who did what he thought was best for the american people. Obama is a skilled politician but the upcoming years and debates will determine whether he is remembered as a Clinton or a Reagan.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Greg Wilson's post in that the unnecessary excess of spending the money from the Health Care Bill will only put our economic standing in a greater debt.
ReplyDeleteStephanie also brings up another reocurring problem that is expressed in the video which is the constant concern of the Obama administration. I see this as impatience of American families to see results in the new bill, but as troy said, it would probably been a more appropriate time to express the new reforms during a time where the economy of our gov't is more stable.
ReplyDeleteIn one of the videos congressman Van Hollin uses the passage of the bill through only one of the houses as a mandate, saying, "The message is clear that we need cheaper health care." I think that using the bills passage through a group of representatives shouldn't necessarily be mistaken for a mandate from the people for health care reform. It should be taken as is, a step in the direction of passing a bill that the people probably (judging by the views of the representatives that they've elected) want to pass.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mary's earlier post that the economy should be the most pressing issue today, but the economy isn't really that easy to fix. Throwing money at it won't solve the problem (as we saw with the stimulus package). I think if we do want to focus on the economy we should focus on enacting more programs like the cash for clunkers program, which was a huge success. With the country's economic problems remedied, we can focus on making health care affordable for more Americans.
It seemed to me also that van hollen won the debate, however that does not mean i agree with him. A major expenditure such as this health care bill is NOT what this country needs. What we need is a comprehensive economic recovery plan that needs to implemented soon. I see the public being far more willing to receive healthcare legislation once the economy is back on solid footing. I regards to comparing obama to Reagan, I see this as an insult to a great former president, who slowed inflation, rescued a damaged economy, fostered both economic and technological progress, came into office with the experience of running the largest state in the union, and did so even with a democratic majority in both houses of congress for a portion of his term, obama has a majority in both houses, the support of much of the country who were disgusted with the failures of the bush administration, and yet here we are, one year into his term, and he has accomplished absolutely NOTHING!!!
ReplyDeleteI believe the argument of David Brooks for the health care reform is an important one to consider but the arguments against the bill, regarding the spending and the timing, are stronger. Brooks’ says that once a bill is passed it then becomes sacred and people like it. He then refers to Reagan and how if the bill is passed, Republican’s in the future will be happy that it did because people will have health care. Arguments against the bill passing have the support of the fact that right now the health care reform is not the number one concern of Americans. The economy and the unemployment rates are more important at the moment and asking congress to pass this hugely expensive at this time is not a good idea and many think it won’t happen because of this reason. In the discussion between Van Hollen and Pence I think Pence won the argument by using a lot of straight factual evidence and seemed to care more about the health care issue and the fact that the Democrats aren’t helping the American people. Van Hollen seemed not to really answer the questions and maybe even relied on the fact that the bill has already been passed by the House. I don’t see the bill being passed within the next few months because they have said that the Senate wants to change a lot of what the bill says and I don’t think they’ll be able to land a compromise soon. As of right now I don’t know nearly enough about the pros and cons of the bill to decide whether or not I am in favor of it.
ReplyDeleteI think Jared posed the question of whether or not you think there’ll be any chance of success of a health care reform if the Republicans win the Senate or House in 2010. I think that’s a great question to consider because maybe Obama sees this as the only opportunity to pass a health care reform bill. He saw how Clinton tried and failed and it’s possible that even considering the bad timing, with the terrible economy and such, he feels it is now or never.
admission to universities or employment for government and business, and eliminates the chances of a white American for those positions. I question the policy, is it appropriate to favor a minority for a position, when a white citizen has the same qualifications and opportunity? Is it fair to deny a person of the white race to another of a minority, just because of their sex, religion, race, and ethnicity? I find the answers of these questions: No! I believe that to treat everyone the same and get the point across that the white race is not superior to minorities, all people need to be valued and treated with the same respect and standards, this includes minorities and the white race. We will never be able to successfully accept everyone as equal as long as we give a group of people more opportunities and acknowledgements, than to other groups. With this being said my viewpoint of Affirmative Action is unequal and unfair.
ReplyDeleteMy viewpoint comes from the websites that have made appropriate reasons why Affirmative Action is skewed in terms of equality. I agree with the reason that affirmative actions leads to reverse discrimination. If Affirmative action is designed to end discrimination of people with different race, religion, sex, etc., then why must a white student who has worked just as hard as say an African American student, who has a lower GPA and test scores, be denied an education? If the answer is just because the white students has the majority race over the student of a minority, to me, that does not seem remotely fair. With that being said I also agree that Affirmative Action lowers the standards to push students to work harder. Affirmative Action is also hypocritical in the sense that it wants to encourage equality, but denies a student because of their race, like in the case of the white student v. minority student in the acceptance of college.
However, I do believe that the other viewpoint, in favor of Affirmative Action, is valid. The one reason I find was more affective is that it “draws people to areas of study and work they many never considered otherwise, as said in the website, http://www.balancedpolitics.org/affirmative_action.htm. Affirmative Action is welcome to the people who believe that because of their race they are not able to accomplish their dreams of becoming a doctor, lawyer, or even the President of the United States, because of they are a person of the minority. Affirmative Action has helped this people to become ambitious and throw away the common misconception that they are not good enough. Many of these people are granted their wish of becoming better in life and furthering their education and careers. But, my overall viewpoint is that Affirmative Action should not be allowed, and therefore taken away from schools, the government, and businesses.
^it cut of my first part of my comment, I said:
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of Affirmative Action, I believe it is unequal because it favors minorities in admission to universities or employment for government and business, and eliminates the chances of a white American for those positions. I question the policy, is it appropriate to favor a minority for a position, when a white citizen has the same qualifications and opportunity? Is it fair to deny a person of the white race to another of a minority, just because of their sex, religion, race, and ethnicity?